The Art of Learning to Listen with a Mission with Lowell Aplebaum
Lowell Aplebaum, FASAE, CAE, CPF, CEO & Strategy Catalyst of Vista Cova joins us this week and shares some incredible insights and experiences as a Master Facilitator in the association market. He has worked with association boards of all sizes helping people listen, hear, and understand each other in the pursuit of a common goal. Enjoy!
Contact Lowell at www.vistacova.com
In The Association Podcast Episode 27:
- The Chief Listening Officier
- The Importance of Listening and Being Open to Other Ways of Thinking
- The Value of a DISC Profile
- Listening with the Intention of Self-improvement
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Listen on Spotify
Jake Toohey
We are back on the association podcast, and we have a great conversation with our guests Lowell Aplebaum, the CEO and founder of VISTA Cova. lol is a certified master facilitator and has worked with Association boards from one to 1000 Plus, to make people listen and hear and understand each other in the pursuit of a common goal and mission. We had a really, really inspiring conversation not only about how to work better in your work environment but also in general. Enjoy. Let’s go.
Lowell Aplebaum
Welcome to the association podcast with your host by three decades in the association market. Jake Toohey and Joe posts from adage technologies. And then let’s clean up.
Ben Muscolino
Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the association Podcast. Today we are joined by the one and only lol Apple bomb. And is a CAE and the CEO of VISTA Cova. Lowell It is awesome to see you today. Thank you for joining us.
Lowell Aplebaum
Because my pleasure to be with you today. Good to see you, gentlemen.
Jake Toohey
Yeah, Lowell, thanks for joining us, we think this is gonna be a really fun conversation because you have a very interesting background where you have kind of sat in different seats on the association side of things. And then you do some interesting work with boards of directors and leaders with associations. So if you wouldn’t mind giving us a little bit of background, how you got to where you are today and some of the work that you do at Vista Cova.
Lowell Aplebaum
Absolutely. Well, it’s, I think most people that work in the association world or did say they felt fell into it. And I’ll say I’m part of the same train. To that extent, my background, I have a master’s in informal education focused on leadership, which I didn’t know would apply to associations, but did beautifully and found my way to my first association. Gosh, 15 years ago, when I was looking to incorporate what was a service mindset, I’ve always loved nonprofit and mission-based organizations worked inside about five associations, finally was the CEO of one, and miss working with people in leadership and strategy. And so started Vista Cova, about five years ago, I became a certified professional facilitator. At this point, we’re working with about 80 to 90 associations a year in strategic planning and visioning, board development, and governance. And it’s from a place of passion, right? I really have a deep-seated belief that in a world where we’re ever more unfortunately divisive, that which can help heal us are places where we can gather places where we can hear each other better, and right where we can associate and hopefully associations have the potential through their missions to gather people with diverse backgrounds with a similar passion, claws, profession industry, and to bring their voices together and to with that make the communities better to make our society better. So that’s been the path along the way a little bit. Within along that path, have found great colleagues, great friends, really meaningful organizations, and some fun along the way to get a certification in beer. I’m in a doctoral program now for that, of education, the focus on leadership, and lots of lots else to explore to and of course, no certification. But the best part is being a dad to three,
Ben Muscolino
that’s fantastic. And I’m sure you’re better at that than any of them. I’ve known you for years. And you’re, you’re an incredible gentleman and a ton of fun to be at these events with. By the way, I missed that so much. And I understand that you’ve been doing a little bit of traveling, I’m a little jealous, and you know, rather than going to the 5000 people, you know, ASAE annual and some of these other things, you have the opportunity to work with smaller groups and you know, strategic boards and leadership teams. So how’s that been going, you know, through the pandemic, the mix of virtual and in person, and it sounds like you’re, you’re on the road already this year.
Lowell Aplebaum
You know, last year, I think all told those close to 200,000 miles in the air last year, which was during the pandemic, right. And it’s just a little bit different organizations when they invest in doing a strategic refresh or a new place that if they can gather their leaders, they want to it’s smaller, you can have a little more control over safety standards. But I mean, like every other piece of our organizational space, I mean, this time has demonstrated that you can effectively still have meaningful work and conversation design and creation virtual hybrid or in personal capacities. And so there’s definitely a desire. I mean, there’s this human element, right like of wanting to be together with your cohort of like, the relate of having a beer not just seeing your little zoom screen, like me being able to curate what beers we all should be drinking and going through. It would be a little bit nice Right. And so I think that that the community elements, what’s missing? But in terms of the important work being done, if there’s ever a time that organizations need to be thinking critically about, what does the future look like they want to create, isn’t it now, right, like this moment of forced innovation and disruption, where they have to change this, this is exactly when many organizations are taken as an opportunity to say, we’ve been forced to let go that which has been what we’ve always done, what instead, could we be? Should we be do we need to be? And that’s that can be done virtually, or hybrid or in person? So
Jake Toohey
to kind of piggyback on that, what are some of the things that you’ve seen change over the past couple years? Maybe what’s what’s much different now than it was, you know, in 2019, when it comes to strategic planning, and the work that you’re doing with so many different associations? And what are you running into?
Lowell Aplebaum
You know, I think that the especially what is happening as the months go by right now, is we’re starting to see the retirement of the long-standing leaders start to leave opportunities in place for those that have wanted to have voice before to actually have a greater voice, right. And so there’s a nice moment here to balance and blend historical context, what can we learn with the possibility of what’s to come? And that I have found is a lot more open than there’s been in the past? Because there’s fresh voices at the table. I also, it’s a good question, Jake. Because I think the other place of it is that this has forced us right, this time has forced us to think creatively about how do we not only rely on those in-person moments but if we’re not able to be in person, how do we hear each other? Right? Like, how do we actually with intention, get places of connection of collaboration of hearing? And so when it comes to strategic planning, right, like, frankly, strategy isn’t a one time every three-year thing, right? It’s an ongoing conversation. And so, at least the philosophy I tried to bring to the table with that is, how do we help our organizations have a mindset and a philosophy of being deeply curious. And hopefully, with a curiosity mindset, that means that what we know at this moment is not going to be sufficient for the future we want to create, we have to ask questions, and we have to seek discovery. And through that can come a better mapping and design of the future. And if you think about like this moment in time, this this is the only way you’re going to connect with people right now is through the intentional seeking out and asking of questions, right? Because if you don’t, you’re just gonna be sitting on your own zoom screen by yourself, which is very nice, I guess. Right. But that doesn’t lend towards building relationships in this setting. And so I think I think that’s a significant shift in the strategic work that many organizations are going through is the intentional outreach and design of curiosity in the process, so they can have a better understanding.
Ben Muscolino
You know, I heard you speak at ESA, great ideas. And I think it may have been the last time I went anywhere. Yeah, for the panel. It
Lowell Aplebaum
was It was right before the pandemic, right.
Ben Muscolino
And I don’t know if you recall, but I was out in the hallway afterward. And I think they had a bourbon bar happy hour or anything, or something like that. And I looked at everyone in the room and I said, lol, just like change the way I’m going to run my business after this. Do you remember that? I do. I do know this concept of listening to ers and chief listening officer is in this whole literal, but also kind of doesn’t the title doesn’t matter. It’s the it’s the action that takes place. Yeah. And I thought I was I was doing a good job at it. What I realized that I was like running an agenda as I was doing it. Not really, it’s that. I don’t know that I’m fully guilty of it. But I was kind of listening to respond and not listening to understand as well as I should have. So for the record, we had an incredible years of both my businesses last year. So thank you, I attribute that all to your session. But talk to me a little bit about this to Cova. Like you, you know, I think that there could be totally volunteer run organizations or three staff organizations that are listening to this. There could be 900 staff, or 160, staff organizations listening to this. Yeah, I mean, does what you do, and I feel like I sort of know the answer this, but I really want to hear how you approach this because there’s different sized organizations. So how, you know, people may think that bringing in someone to help them do this better or set the groundwork? And certainly it maybe it depends on what level you go into. But but how does it work for different sized organizations? Like how do they benefit from someone that really does what you do professionally. And I know from experience and talking to customers of yours in ASAE, and other places that you’re incredible. So talk to talk to us about that.
Lowell Aplebaum
I mean that look, we work with organizations that work with organizational sto with us and staff that worked with an organization last year with 550. Staff, right? Like the concept of having someone come in that’s able to facilitate creating the space where people can hear each other better, is regardless of staff size, right? Ultimately, all of our organizations are based on the concept that if we’re able to gather the right leaders at the right moment, and bring them the broader perspectives they should consider they should be able to have a faculty and listening to delineate what is that which almost advance our mission. And so small or large, right? What’s important, it seems right now is to how do we better prepare the leaders we rely on to craft this dynamic, inspirational vision of the future that we want our organizations to pursue and achieve? From a place not of ego? Right? Not from like what they know. but rather from what you were talking about Ben, like not just a chief listening officer, but that each of them mean that this is the iteration two years later, right? is actually all of our leaders need to be chief listening officers, right? Each of them have to understand in the concept that their responsibility when they’re seated at the table, to decide the future of an organization is not what they hold most important. But how are they hearing the broader context, the market, the environment, the audience’s the stakeholders, to bring to the table considerations beyond their personal experience to hopefully have some collaborative disagreement and dialogue and then collaboration coming together around all of that size of organization doesn’t matter that right like small arms, huge org, it’s still all about asking the right questions, hearing the perspectives, being able to incorporate from those the trends that you hear coming, right. That’s where the foresight comes in. And then aligning, hopefully, like your focus your resources, your staff, your volunteers, your efforts, your message, to stay in a directive rather than a reflective position, right, so that even if you’re not at the cutting edge, you’re not catching up. You’re helping determine what the future path needs to be. And that’s what every organization wants, right? An organization that’s playing catch up all the time, be at 500,000, or 50 million, is not going to be around fertile.
Ben Muscolino
I absolutely love that. And so I will say this, you and I, we’ve been in the same place many times together we share this passion for I’ve never actually worked out been on boards of nonprofits now. But I’ve never actually worked on staffing and association. And you have you’ve worked in a couple you worked at SFM and Aspen, and but I think another IFEMA. Prior to that even and you went from director to senior director to Chief Operating Officer over at Mercer city for perinatal rank rolling enteral nutrition. Thank you.
Lowell Aplebaum
You’re welcome, Dell, I
Ben Muscolino
hope they listen to this podcast. They’re one of my customers. And I and I and I do know, I do know what every acronym stands for. That’s one of the fun things we do in our business. So So talk to us about I want to hear a little bit more about your beard certification. And some of the things you’ve done with GSA, because I know you’ve helped raise money, a lot of good and we both have a ton of fun doing events and things like that. But talk to us about some of the other certifications that you have. And I’m really interested in you know, what it feels like to be part of that fellow club. And when you got your CIE to talk to us?
Lowell Aplebaum
Well, I’m happy to I’ll start with the beard part. But I think the question I’ll turn back to you after I shared mine is I think the question there really is, right? What is the piece of you, or a piece of you, for any of the three of you that are places of passion or of interest, that you wish someone asked you to use or employ or to give or to teach or to contribute? Right? Not the place that you’re always thought of, but the different place, right, the side interest you have. And so, you know, for me, one of those places was really the passion I have in tasting beer. Big difference between drinking beer and tasting beer. In the tasting beer world, it means you don’t drink a beer you don’t like Right? But it does mean from a place of palate refinement. I mean, what is better than like being on a journey of sensory exploration where you’re with people and they can be like, I don’t like beer, and then you give them like five different types. They’re like, I didn’t know that’s what it could taste like. Right? And you see, like their mind open to these possibilities like through the sensory exploration they never would have known before. That’s just fun, right? Like, like, for me, that’s, that’s such a giving and an exchange. And especially if you can do them in a place where you can learn together. And there’s many organizations that have a 501 C three component of foundation, or you can do it with like boards of directors, right is in place of like learning together and bonding, that you can learn about the art of tasting beer of appreciation of a rite of the beverage that can raise money, but that’s also fun in the process. And so we were talking before we started recording, that actually the Georgia Society of Association Executives along with Russ Webb and Mike Pence, And the three of us are no down there as the beer brothers and each year have done for the star, their annual conference of beer tasting, right that we raise money, we auction off, like amazing beers we bring down, and it helps fun for them for the State Society, right, like internships and meaningful places they can give back to their association community. I think it for any of us, we find like that place of passion, right, and you can put it towards a good cause. I’ve also done with the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, they have a brewers volunteer. Right. And so the being on the organizing committee means you get to help pick the beer I can do that kind of volunteer is that’s just fine. Right? I mean, I don’t know. I mean, is that oh, ask any of the three of you I mean, do you have places that like that you all, like, have a passion or an interest that you wish you can give back? Or that you do as well? I mean, here’s mine, but sure, there are others.
Ben Muscolino
Yeah, for me, I can tell you this, like I’m going to Rochester, New York this weekend for a funeral. And it’s for a really good friend of mines mother who passed and she had this awful degenerative neurological disease called ataxia. And I sit on the board of directors for them. And admittedly, I’m not overly involved, but I’ve helped them make decisions on how to be a little bit more structured over time so that they can operate like a real nonprofit. And even though we don’t have staff, and so you know, I take a ton of pride in that, because I grew up with him, right, like, and when he was away at war, like I would stop in and check on his mom. And at the same time, I’m involved as much as I can be with ASAP. Because I think that they bridge, you know, they do they try as well as they can to bridge, you know, the Association Executives, association professionals, which I think we want to see more of and hear more of, rather than just the executives, and they bridge that conversation with consultants and vendors. And I think there’s work to be done there. But they’ve also done a decent job of it over the years. And I love being involved in being a speaker and awards, judges, and things like that. And it allows me to see perspectives and maybe taste some beers that I don’t like, but at least know what they what they’re all about. So,
Jake Toohey
you know, actually, I do have a story. I’ve been an athlete my entire life. Some people make assumptions about athletes. But my story, especially with nonprofits is when I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes when I was 12 years old. It’s not called type one diabetes. But I was a baseball player, and I was scared as hell. And the day we got home from the hospital, I got a call from Ron Santo is a Hall of Famer from the Chicago Cubs, he had type one since he was 19, or 20. And he talked to me for like 20 minutes about how you can play ball and you don’t even after think about this, don’t let it worry you, you can do it. And not only was that inspiring to me, but you know, we got involved with JDRF for years. And that’s probably one I fell in love with the 501. SeaWorld and almost accidentally, I’ve made it my career to be ingrained in this world. Even working on this podcast with Joe and batten. We care about the association industry. And we like to talk to other people who do as well. So that’s my story.
Lowell Aplebaum
You know, I think you want to be involved in places that speak not just to your mind, but to your heart. You know, the, I’m on the board of directors of shepherds table, which anyone listening in, it’s worth a Google and to see the amazing work that they do in Maryland, in silver spring to help those that need a meal or need a lift in terms of helping to find a job opportunity. And it’s not that that’s my area of expertise, right. But if my area of expertise of governance and strategy can contribute, then that’s a meaningful place. I think that as we think about whether it’s large organizations or small places like this, right, like the places we can blend our passion, with our strength with the right cause that’s gravy, right, like, that’s, that. That’s what makes you smile.
Ben Muscolino
Well, talking about passion for connection, let’s switch lanes and talk about Association. rockstars. Real quick, what do we need to know about Association rockstars level?
Lowell Aplebaum
I think we all probably had our own time to reflect and think during a pandemic. And of the things that arose in the conversations I was having in a virtual setting is that we do an okay job in terms of recognition of organizations in the award programs we have. We do an okay job of recognition the work of associations, but we don’t what we don’t do an amazing job of is having places like shows like this one as well. Right? That try to elevate those that have voices of leadership and inspiration in the overarching field that isn’t an award, but just can be hopefully an example to others about what is the mindset? And what is the experience of someone who has had a successful career? Who is a leading voice? So that within there that can be some attenuation of those that are listening and thinking about? Is that something that resonates within me? Is that something that I can aspire towards? I mean, that’s the point of rockstars. Right? It’s really to try to take and elevate varying voices with intentionally diverse representation across all the different definitions. And to give just brief moments where our larger Association community can maybe you’ve just been introduced to someone they don’t know, right, a place of connection and a time when we’re in isolation. And even as we emerge from COVID isolation, or emerge and go back in and merge and go back in or whatever turtle thing we’re doing here. There are still limitations on how far people can travel because of the fiscal realities, right, next-generation, how much can they really take off work to go to things. And so I think the more things like rockstars, the more things like the association podcast, where we give invitations for others to connect with those that wouldn’t have met otherwise. You know, I try to take all the awkward out of saying, I’m having someone on the show, I’m taking the awkward out of it, like connect with them on LinkedIn, like they’re here like they want to meet you. Right. And I think what’s beautiful about these opportunities isn’t just the fun conversations you have during it. But hopefully the opening of the door that potential connections that can come afterward.
Ben Muscolino
Well, one of my favorite things about the association market is the why right? You get people from the nonprofit side or the commercial side, I’ve always said working as a for profit in the nonprofit space has just been the pleasure of my life. I never, I don’t think I’m ever going to leave. Right. And you know, you get people to start talking about not just how, and what, but then you hear their why. And if they just say we a lot of us, we just wear it and we don’t mean to you, we start talking about anything. You’ve already done it. Since you’ve been with us today. And I feel like we see ourselves. We see that counterpoint in other people when we hear their why and then it refreshes our why it’s one of the reasons I love going to events so much. Yeah, Caitlyn, my better half she’s a teacher. And she’s not like a conference circuit go right? And she’s like, why do you really like love going to some of these conferences, she’s come back and you’re just nuts, you’re energized. And that’s saying a lot because I’m energized, usually anyway. And I’m like, I need a good keynote every few months to like, kick me in the ass. And there Why is different than mine, but I need to hear like a good y story, you know, and it gets me fired up. And I feel like a lot of people in this market have that y story that they just unintentionally just wear all the time when we get to see it. So we’re doing a better job of showcasing people to show us that. Thank you for what you do at Association rockstars. I think it’s great.
Lowell Aplebaum
Well, I think I love the emotional reset that you’re talking about, right? The refill that you’re talking about. But I also think that within their beliefs I hear you mentioned Ben, is where are we seeking opportunity to be able to hear passionate perspectives that we don’t hold at this moment. But that can open our eyes, right to a new point of view. And there’s energy in that as well, right, the beauty and passion of discovery. And we get that through sources through books, but especially through people and their stories. And hopefully these kinds of efforts lead to that as well.
Joe Post
Thank you for marketing our podcasts better than we have marketed our podcast
Lowell Aplebaum
while you guys are doing it. I look, I mean, the size, the amazing, like architecture at the end, which I’m happy to be talking about. I can’t wait to see myself in character. That’s gonna be awesome. Right? I mean, yeah, what you’re doing with this podcast, right is really taking this opportunity to present each time, different perspectives and voices that are going to hopefully have ripple effects inspire dozens, hundreds 1000s. And I think that’s amazing.
Jake Toohey
Well, that’s like the ripple effect. And we talk about that all the time, during this podcast has been as beneficial from my own learning and our own learning and just hearing different perspectives. I think that’s the fun thing about the association market is that people are so willing to share their experiences. And you can get a lot from just hearing, you know, 20 minutes to somebody talking. So that’s always it. It’s been a ton of fun for us. And it’s been great to have guests on like yourself,
Lowell Aplebaum
I appreciate that. One of the things I always love about having these conversations, is I always at least on rockstars, right? I tell them the question where I start with and where I end with, but I don’t promise any question in between, because, right, the path of mutual learning that comes from like, from what you’re saying, What’s the question I want to ask you, right? What what is that place of discovery? Like? Jake, if you say that I want to ask like, tell me like from one of the other one that not made like one of the other ones you’ve had? What’s something that you’ve learned from what you’re saying that like, is there one that comes to mind that like you felt like there Sharing like taught you something.
Jake Toohey
I always think about Patrick Dorsey when he talked about making things easier just for your clients, just from a sales perspective, that was impactful for me. Because it was he was talking about, like, I just want to make I want our software to make your life easier. I don’t want you to go home at seven o’clock when you’re dealing with kids, you’re trying to cook dinner, I don’t want you worrying about your AMS. So if I can make your life easier, that’s what I’m here to do. I always think about that. I mean, there’s been tons and tons of them. But that one was, is always really stuck with me. What about you, Jeff?
Joe Post
I gotta say, I’m more meta, Jake. It’s more like the themes that emerge across so many guests. And the things that I’m interested in are, for example of different personalities, right? Like, I noticed on your say, you have a DISC profile partnership badge. Yep. Right. And we have met probably every combo possible on the show, in similar positions of leadership, they’re entrepreneurs, they’re CEOs, whatever, right? There are so many different titles, all in positions of influence, you could say, and all different makeups. And we’ve gotten such a great diversity of personalities of just about every characteristic you could think of. But most importantly, for me, different ways of thinking. Right. And that’s the part I think, that really comes through throughout the show is like, every guest thinks a little bit differently about how they work. But they are all passionate. And that is something that’s always really, for me very exciting, right? I’m not an extrovert, like Ben, I don’t get interested in going to shows, I get a little bit more energy, just from the conversation, a little more intimate setting. But I am curious. And now that you brought it up, I’m curious if you would share what your DISC profile is since you endorse the tool.
Lowell Aplebaum
So I’ll say that I’ve never felt like that is such an intimate sharing before in terms of profile sharing. Personally, I, you know, I am an empath by nature, right. And so, for me in the definitely in the AI realm, the influence realm, there’s a big place there. But like my influence, like how that falls out is, comes from a place of servant leadership, right? It comes from a place of inquiry and asking, but it’s not the dominance of my voice that needs to be the loudest. And I think, for me, DISC, or truth is any of the assessments that are available. Really, that is an organization or an individual’s commitment for both self-understanding and mutual understanding. Right, that’s what we’re hopefully achieving by any of those tools. And so, you know, I think the commitment to that right, like, I’m not sure if Congress would be better if they all had a DISC assessment. Right. You know, I mean, but would it be better if they could collectively make an agreement that we would be better if we were interested in hearing what each other had to say, more than talking loudest? Yeah, I do? I think so. And so I think a DISC is a powerful approach. It is a great tool. But I don’t think it’s one size fits all, you know, and I think it’s really the questions we can ask, that opened the doors of understanding of ourselves and others,
Joe Post
you know, actually is really interesting, because what I’m really curious about is the path from the empath to being a facilitator. Yeah. And, you know, maybe you can take us down that journey for yourself, you know, how do you make lead?
Lowell Aplebaum
I, I’m not sure it’s a leap. I think for me, it’s a blend, right? That, look, facilitation is a skill set, right? Like you can and, and I have hundreds of different facilitation methodologies. But what I don’t have is a single way I do things right. Like I don’t want to isn’t like the, I have similar questions I’ll use to like, start to understand when an organization wants to achieve and like what they’re thinking, but I don’t have a single methodology of how to achieve it, right. And so for me, at least, I don’t know how to care a little bit with every organization I work with, I have a deep-seated caring for their mission. And I think that the empath side of it is that leadership feels that I’m not there. Because of the bottom line. I’m there because I care about their mission and want to see them advance their mission. And that’s, I know, for me, that’s the service-minded sort of mindset and philosophy of the company. Right? We all here work for for-profit companies, but I’ve had different conversations with different entrepreneurs. release for me like the goal has never been money, right? Like you do good work and the resources you need find you. For me, the goal has always been what can I provide that leverages My strengths as a facilitator and my inherent nature as an empath that can feel the energy, right of like where people resonate when people are not saying something, right. Like, I can read that and feel that in a way that allows me to ask the right questions. And so you, I think you can learn a facilitation skill set, you can certainly up your emotional intelligence. But for me, it isn’t a leap. It’s a, it’s a blending, you know, and creates a different dynamic in the room when we’re having a meaningful conversation. And I think organization leadership that works with me walks away, not always realizing it, but like, having felt like the work we did was one where I cared deeply about their mission as much as they do.
At The Association Podcast, we are always looking for fresh perspectives on the association industry. Do you or someone you know want to share your perspective with us? Contact Joe, Jake, and Ben using the form below.